Thursday, January 1, 2009

Piper, the Pope and the Prophet

Very interesting post on Mormon Coffee comparing the authoritative differences between Protestant Christianity, Catholicism and mormonism. The post, What if Thomas Monson, Pope Benedict XVI, and John Piper began teaching that the practice of homosexuality was morally praiseworthy? , is interesting and really shows the flaws in placing a human authority over the Bible. In the post, Aaron uses the example of homosexuality. If John Piper suddenly started teaching that homosexuality was OK, Christians including Aaron and I who love Piper's ministry, would call him out for teaching something that was not in accord with God's Word. But if Thomas Monson started teaching that, what would mormons be able to do about it? There isn't a recall vote for prophet that I am aware of. They would either have to grit their teeth and go along with it or recognize Monson as the false teacher he is. The third option would be to devolve into what much of Catholicism has, where people claim to be adherents and yet feel free to ignore what the Pope says.

Stray from the authority of the Word, place a human between you and Christ and all manner of mischief follows! The comment string alone should be worth the price of admission!


FrGregACCA said...

I raised a similar question with a Mormon concerning "the prophet," but did not get an answer. However, in principle, I see nothing in Mormonism that could stop him from doing so (although I do not anticipate such an annoucement emanating from Salt Lake City any time soon).

In the case of the Pope, the matter is different. For Roman Catholics, the Pope is, according to RC statements, "the servant of the Word of God [expressed in Scripture and Tradition], not its master." Because of this, Paul VI felt bound to perpetuate the RC ban on artificial contraception and he and his successor, John Paul II, both stated that the Church "has no authority" to ordain women. Therefore, the authority of the Pope in Roman Catholicism is quite different from that of the "the prophet" in Mormonism, and the common RC teaching is that if a Pope shows himself to be a "formal heretic," as he would do by making such a statement, he would cease to be Pope.

Anonymous said...

Please pray for this family.

Kathleen said...

I don't think dialogue can even begin until anti-Mormons with strong 19th Century roots admit to the Genocides and mass killings of Mormons perpetrated by the customary means, in both the old world and new and on the seas. The Missouri Extermination Order and the first Indians forced along the trail of tears both were initiated in 1838. Many most active in recaptured the little lambs who once baa-a-a-ed after their pastors so contentedly are of this Genocidal heritage.

I don't know why the huge surge of conversion spiked over the last few years, but it hasn't benefited either easy come easy go converts or the Church itself.

It lowered discourse to the lowest denominator understanding of entry level LDS converts.

When they hear of a scholar or Phd. Mormon Lecturer and it is something they don't understand, they don't want to put in the time to study and understand and form their own opinions. Rescue them, comb the suburbs of America for these numskulls. Easy come, easy go.

And if they felt something they thought was the Holy Spirit and now its a gaping wound, let the shrinks take care of them and not the pompous asses that put Christianity
on a third grade level in the first place.

My best friend converted. She was afraid to tell me until after the fact because she knew I'd say it was precipitous.

I hope she benefits, and she will for awhile. There must be a profound need, gratitude, and a call to this path, and an ability to master a very complex religion formed by the worst and best in human nature.

I studied church history at nine, my teacher was a Japanese Convert whose father, like many high caste Japanese, was sent out of the country during the war, was the Ambassador
to Brasil during WWII--they knew little about China.

She was an excellent teacher and taught us Mormon History in the Context of World History. I went to Institute in High school, and went to most of the brown-baggers held by various professors out of my department, which was secular.

This last year and a half has been the first time since I was sixteen that the focus of my life has has not been Creative Writing. It has been a waste of time.

If you don't want to apply yourselves--and Sam Weiler has 3 million titles for you to choose from. Sea-gull Books also has a large inventory. Anyone can take Institute of Religion Classes, and you are sincere--go find answers to your questions.

Net dialogue is repetitive and abusive, shallow, and not worth the attention of anyone with
the intelligence to use a computer. It's going to get worse not better. The anti's will continue
to keep it there because it is a strategic angle of attack.

Arthur Sido said...

Um, Kathleen my family didn't even emigrate to America until the 20th century so I am not sure how I have strong 19th century roots. Still waiting as well for an admission by the mormon church leadership of the complicity of the "prophet" in the Mountain Meadow Massacre.

I am not really sure what your point is, it certainly has nothing to do with the post itself. I have spent quite a bit of time studying mormonism since I left, not in sanitized materials but in original source materials and if you would do the same you might find that the stories of early church history you have been fed are full of ourtight lies and half-truths.